January 21, 2018, 12:08:06 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: New theories!  (Read 684 times)

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October 02, 2017, 02:27:10 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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I have seen some very interesting things regarding possible ergot poisoning, radiation exposure, and inhalation of poisonous chemicals such as methanol.

Who is in favor of adding some of these to the list of theories on the index?   


I say why not.....     thumb1

October 03, 2017, 04:19:46 PM
Reply #1
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mk


Sure!  You can always combine sections if some of them don't have enough threads, right?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 05:45:00 PM by Loose}{Cannon »

October 03, 2017, 05:45:10 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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Of course....   Ill see about adding/combining some here in a bit.  Right now Im working on a (how to) post images tutorial.   thumb1

October 03, 2017, 06:30:25 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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Combined ergot poisioning and shrooms.  grin1

October 03, 2017, 06:44:46 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Combined some more and added one or two.  Hows that?   

October 04, 2017, 07:16:44 AM
Reply #5
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IlkkaSaari


An outsider ( escaped from russian gulag ) comes into camp and is offered shield in tent. He asks to loan a knife or grabs it.

Tent rips from inside and nearly naked 9 people escape into cold storm

Later outsider spends some time in camp with food.

There is one item found in camp that was not owned by youth. It is a felt like material cloth that is wrapped to shield. Used fe. by soldiers

Two youth from camp made a daytrip and they photoed a big man looking at them behind trees which is the killer, and this way killer finds his way into camp.

Also subsequent cruelties match the psychological profile of an escaped prisoner and are done with knife that is not found
Also youth had spirits and none of the bottles could not be found from camp

#Dyatlov #russia #mystery

October 04, 2017, 07:59:43 AM
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kenne




"There is one item found in camp that was not owned by youth. It is a felt like material cloth that is wrapped to shield. Used fe. by soldiers"

  I have read one of these wrappings was also by the ravine.

 

kenne

October 04, 2017, 11:49:15 AM
Reply #7
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Loose}{Cannon

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Guys...  This thread was intended for brain storming on new/additional theories in which to create on the index. 

This is however the general discussion board, so please either start a new thread in general discussion, or in the appropriate theory section.  In this case....  (Murderers), and discuss.   thumb1

November 12, 2017, 03:37:06 PM
Reply #8
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Armide


How about the theory that a fight or a personal quarrel took place? It’s probably one of the most cynical theories that I’ve come across, but lots of the versions I’ve read about had some pretty good arguments (it would explain why Dyatlov had minor injuries to the cartillage on his fist and a few others of the injuries sustained by the other group members). It’s not one I necessarily wholeheartedly believe in and has a few holes in it, but it’s a theory and it’s interesting nonetheless

November 14, 2017, 06:02:45 AM
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xian06


So R5 rocket explosion answers:

R5 rocket engine brake apart next to Dyatlov team (because leak lox form R5 rocket and this additional oxygen was too much heat for rocket parts).
That means rocket fuel metanol and liquid oxygen spread around them.
And rocket part flying in air about 100 meter or less from team and some part was more than 2300C.
I think they waiting for the rocket because this explosion was very fast but take pictures from 3 cameras and that was in midnight.
Mr Sztalker think they waiting for a atom bomb explosion in stratosphare.

November 22, 2017, 02:01:10 PM
Reply #10
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sharp55


I think we can rule out chemical explosions as well as rocket explosions and for that matter any type of artillery and or bomb burst from what I did read of the forensics those theories do not hold water and with my artillery experience I do not see or have read of any evidence that suggests such. Even an air burst leaves considerable evidence that would indicate such. Having also had cracked ribs in my lifetime wrestling it is not necessary to have bruises shown in the exterior that is false my broken ribs did not come from blows from the outside but as I maneuvered breaking the hold it occurred so it is not a given the ribs came from a blow from the outside. What does puzzle me is the fact they all apparently marched down to the woods which seems to indicate too me they were led down. Although there is no foot print evidence but seeing as this was covered up any investigation of the surrounding area either did not occur or were hushed up take your pick of the two. However one thing is for sure the forensics or might I add lack of forensics make this tragic event the more puzzling. My take on this that this is a cold case murder  that needs to be thoroughly examined as much as possible.
One thing hard for me to imagine is how an expedition can be taken by anyone not armed, (of course am not familiar with the Russian customs other than even today they have strict laws of gun ownership I know this from my Russian friends having visited from time to time over the years) I have lived in the Pacific mountains a good length of time so am familiar with hunting as will as survival techniques. Going into the mountains even in the winter is risky let alone unarmed there is a difference from being a long distance snow skier for the sport as compared from one whom knows those mountains etc like the Mansi so to speak. I think that the answer must lie in the who could have and why? I do not know how they are called in Russia but in America we would suggest poachers, the locals or the military I think one of these three are the guilty parties in this crime.

On the smoking stove bit the tent would have shown substantial evidence of this as will as the immediate area around the tent and for instance you have to ask yourself why did they venture that far away from the tent had this had been the case it just does not add up.On Big foot or Yeti please!!! or for that matter the UFO's (seems like that belief system/religion always comes into play) I think it is more feasible to stick with the real world theories other than fantastic out of this world assumptions. I think we are dealing with multiple homicides on the fate of the Dyatlov pass tragedy nothing more even if it was accidental it became a crime when they covered up their tracks so to speak.   
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 02:25:13 PM by sharp55 »

November 23, 2017, 08:11:59 PM
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sharp55


One main point in my mind that I never see mentioned is the fact that in Russia you pretty much need permission to travel around these areas or for that fact moving anywhere in Russia Prapiska's (probably spelled that wrong) come to mind. The Dyatlov sporting expedition no doubt received the necessary permission to be in those mountains. If so to speak a group unknown perhaps hunters, poachers or any other illegal type of practice were in that area and seen by the group (the 9 in question) it is not far fetched that perhaps the motive to murder was more an option than a risk of being told about. Now the perpetrators in this case would have been I think older adults and having gone through the Stalin purges it is not too hard to come up with an motive. The whole mystery about this tragedy is the way they were found and the unbelievable story or official story that was told it simply makes no sense at all, but if you factor in they were more than likely forced down to the woods and then murdered one by one and in different locales then the story becomes plausible.
What is not plausible is that the group simply decided for reasons unknown the casually walk down as a group in no hurry towards the woods without proper clothing or supplies I do not see them as heavens gate individuals on a suicidal pact. On the other hand one thing is a fact they were unarmed for the most part, they were young except for one. While the human mind can fantasize a lot (one of the down sides of free will from the biblical perspective) and there are so many fantastic theories but I agree with the author of this web site and and Svetlana (as heard both speak via podcasts and like to thank both for clearing up a lot of information about this case) but not necessarily in the order I think both are on the right path with exception it does not take Hercules to inflict the type of wounds that occurred on all victims. I would also be willing to bet that the experts that say they died from the extreme weather if asked is it possible they are wrong and the bodies do show signs of foul play I would bet they would also concede to the fact it could also be demonstrated they were murdered and simply not just hypothermia.

The whole mess is the cover up by the Russian government, but not out of the realm of thinking the area has top secret military installations at that time and maybe even today and any thorough investigation would have to include inspecting the surrounding areas for evidence of another party being in that locale at the same time as the tragedy occurred. I think they did not want any outside agency(militia) or folks poking around so the cover up and explanation solves this. No investigation, no prodding around an area the Soviet military and government wants secret and under wrap. It is also possible the military did find the bodies and site first am sure they had routine patrols in the area. It is also likely they covered up tracks as well (not out of reason to think so). What touches me a bit and must be getting more sentimental as I get older are the birth dates of some of these students they are born basically the same time as my mother and father that hits close to home for me as I think about the families they could have raised and should have had the opportunity to do so is so tragic to write the least and I hope someone solves this case.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 08:17:09 PM by sharp55 »

December 04, 2017, 01:35:08 AM
Reply #12
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xian06


From Hungarian forum:

I think it is worth returning to the 2nd spot (the rocket of the missile with the stabilizers), at least for a comment.

http://kepkezelo.com/images/5hs7kbclh9lnuvmdd480.jpg

Here, on a real structure, we present the suspected breaking-break lines of the wreck:

http://kepkezelo.com/images/9t8z6pmyrzfsy1jn1lqo.jpg

Only this scum can only be enough to prove that a real (R5) rocket structure has blown away from the Gyatlovek, the 2nd wreck contains many details that make it probable (that is, it would be difficult to mistake to mistake a similar object) , or at least the statistical probability of doing so is that they could shoot an unknown object of that shape that night. Contrary to the unknown sheet metal found on the pass (which I would accept as the 8th wreckage), on this 2nd element I will try to prove my explanations so far, because I see a chance. Let's look at these details:

In the enclosed drawings I have described in detail enough how the location of this wreckage can be imagined of the entire trunk structure, but here, in this scorching, it is interesting not only to break similarities between the panels, but also to see a very characteristic pattern (silhouette). the element that is in close contact with the rocket control mechanism and perhaps reinforces my LOX leakage.

On the lower part of the wreck, the small protruding protrusions are probably the remnants of a gas drifting wing, (there are more technical solutions in this genre, the Russians took over the structure of the Nazi rocket scientists in their own R5 missile, the notorious German V2 pattern), and this silhouette could be fairly telling rocket explosion:

http://kepkezelo.com/images/v85sikenerj3hxqxfym0.jpg

For the sake of better visibility, I've also copied an original collection so that we can feel this rotatable structure "body-closer", and if I could make another comment, I would also like to look at the shape and the roundness of the edges of the parts of the rocket, the images of the scratches 5 and 6 (retaining bits) that were analyzed previously would be back in these.

http://kepkezelo.com/images/8l3cxfe31fogxdifo10x.jpg

The gas flaps are made of very high heat-resistant material, graphite (graphite does not melt to about 3500 ° C), and the structure is capable of correcting the direction of the missile by moving the hot gas spout from the nozzle, which is regulated by an inertial (inertia) gyroscope system automatically, human control v. without interference. (The subject is more interested in online search engines such as thrust vectoring, graphite jet vane, the system is still used on new generation combat aircraft, as well as of all types of missiles, including the notorious Scuds.) I find it particularly pungent, (exactly beneath the LOX tank) and although the fire has been devastated most at the bottom of the rocket, it has affected the whole surface because of the leakage of the oxygen, so it is not excluded that the missile instrument compartments are located between the two fuel tanks By the time he reached the pass, his management system could have terminated the service.

The position of this gas deflector wing - that is, abnormally folded - at an angle of at least 120 ° rather than almost vertical (from 0 to 20 degrees) (see the rocket museum photos) suggests that the system was desperately trying to correct the asymmetrical thrust of the device, to keep the structure still in the right direction, but it could have been hopeless. It is also likely that such a steep angle can not already be realized in high-speed flights (since at a fraction of the sound speed, a small number of wing rotations are enough to affect the gas flow radically), so our rocket could at that time have a lower speed and less thrust. (Of course, the power of the explosion has not so much to do with the graphite wings, but I find it a little less likely.) There are 4 of these wings on the rocket and are located at the bottom of the stabilizers, but are statically aligned with the trunk, from a drive case (actuator) hanging out on a rotating axis, so the piece of wreck could still be left, though the bottom of the outlet was torn.

It is also clear how much everything burned down below, the less heat-resistant parts (plinth, stubble rod, lower, thinner parts of the stabilizer) could all tear, break, or simply blossom from the great heat generated by the leaking LOX fires. They are not heat-resistant like graphite wings (there is a special shield - also graphite - also protects slightly from the drive rotary electric motor, the actuator's housing from the hot gas, plus a thick metal

December 08, 2017, 08:26:21 AM
Reply #13
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sharp55


From the picture evidence is there a true way to determine what is a natural photo as taken as compared to a negative that simply is contaminated or just an abnormal negative and or an accidental shot being taken(we all have done this with cameras)? Reminds me of the big foot photo's always blurry and leaves one guessing as too the authenticity of the photo's in question. Again on a rocket there would be traces of it visible as written before even with an air-burst and no one so far as I have read seemed to mention any traces of an explosion. The biggest thought I have against the exploding rocket theory is the manner in which they left the tent (in no hurry). As far as concussion type of injuries the logical place in the bodies would be the ears that is where over-whelming evidence of death by explosion and or explosive type of concussion injuries would be apparent and none of these autopsied bodies show this.

An excellent movie that comes close to showing what happens during explosions is a Bridge Too far the opening artillery scene against the British column (very realistic). While a type of explosion can cause disorientation via shell shock etc. It does not explain the lack of damage that would have been absolutely apparent in the bodies recovered and not to mention no traces in ground or above or residue that would be apparently and easily seen by the rescue crews. Now for instance let us say it is still feasible and not impossible as to a military test missile being the culprit. If this were the case then there is noway that seeking survival they would have left their camp for fear of survival and choosing certain death (i.e. clothing and gear necessary to survive after leaving) and the next part casually and normally exiting down to the forest area. This all points to foul-play and not missile test via the military and or out of this world theories, sometimes it is the first logical conclusion we now and the investigators then were thinking, that is they were forced down that mountain (but not in a rush) that is why apparently in the beginning the suspicions were cast upon the Mansi people.

What stands out too me is the way the government at that time chose to put this case under wraps  my thoughts are they found the Mansi people not guilty but my question is what about the other indigenous people in the surrounding area? The way they were driven out of the camp without bare necessities shows at the least some form of hatred of this group (although not personally if one gets my point). If this were done today in the US it would have been labeled I think some form of hate crime to begin with. Look for instance at Luda is it just happenstance the condition they find her in or is it something else? Think about her background very odd her remains are well let us say a more advanced form of deterioration. I know that it can after all turn out to be the military (not out of question) but the evidence does suggest otherwise. Now the Mansi did give indication's that they had from time to time ran across the military in the area and some of the items found suggest a military presence in the least, but it still could be the some indigenous people that simply have had certain military clothing and or equipment. Soldiers do tend to do this sometimes via trades just visit any type of pawn shops around any military institution around the world for proof.

Last but not least the rescue crews arriving did not think they were coming to a possible crime scene otherwise they may have not been too hasty to handle the tent nor trample the area around the tent nor clothing and or other items left behind. In the end what we have is a comprised investigation site and without the technology in criminal investigation existent today this adds to this tragic mystery for instance we will never know if any traces of DNA for example were left on the victims from those outside of their party for example.   

December 08, 2017, 03:47:39 PM
Reply #14
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Looks like they took this pic, rotated it, and enhanced it.  From What I undersatand, this set of pics came from Zolotaryov's camera with highly damaged film, and these were just very small parts of the frames magnified several times to see what you see.  Also.... negatives, so these would be black spots when developed.   wink1


December 08, 2017, 06:08:46 PM
Reply #15
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sharp55


Right that was exactly my point the film does look damaged thanks also forgot to mention the state of Semyon's body being the same as Ludas my miss-write

December 11, 2017, 09:40:52 PM
Reply #16
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xian06


I tried to summarize in a drawing the agony of the damaged structure:

http://kepkezelo.com/images/vdob8311ahayt633eua1.jpg

So they did not break the champagne Koroljovék that day ...

By the way, Koroljov! Although I did not consider it important, but the date of launch (February 2) was in my mind and I found a similar launch date 3 YEARS (1956) when a nuclear test was actually carried out with the same type of Kara-kum desert detonating the nuclear charge. ( "Baikal experiment".)

Can not the rocket comrades have been slightly superstitious, is he? They wanted to repeat (but now with other stuff and more), but they insisted on the lucky date? (By the way, there are a lot of such habitual habits, there are still superstitions among armed forces, whether in the air force or in other armies, so I do not consider it to be excluded that this might have contributed to a forced start.)

The rocket value of the rocket can already give you a handle to have an approximate picture of how long it might have been in the air that it crossed over the rocks (this can be seen from Slobodan's photo if the guy held his camera straight) I looked at the pieces of the fallen tail, which could not have been stable for so long, because at least 2 stabilizer wings dropped close to the Zoloes along with the tail part, which could even spin, but it certainly did not drag for a long time.


I found new Zolotarev photos about the fall of the wreckage, so I could add to the more detailed drawing I made for the subject, which would also clarify the number of photographs of the children and their recordings.

Here's the outline:

http://kepkezelo.com/images/e5p412q3djq3xuo75py0.jpg

This sums up the shooting events along with the rocket sinking, watching where the observers and photographers might be.

But first for the new Zolotarev photos:

https://docviewer.yandex.com/view/0/?*=DhhX5UOCJoVs5slQQFRFOEt9q7F7InVybCI6InlhLWRpc2stcHVibGljOi8vSTk5Y0xNekY1bUVRZ3daakJPNGFFbVBOTWFKMkd0d0o3dTJKRWo5QjVrST0iLCJ0aXRsZSI6ItCd0L7QstGL0LUg0LfQsNCz0LDQtNC60Lgg0JQuZG9jIiwidWlkIjoiMCIsIm5vaWZyYW1lIjpmYWxzZSwidHMiOjE0OTYxMjI5NDQ2Mzd9

It's a good idea to look at the pictures in this little paper, but I think it's just a hoax, it's not the author's idea what to do on the photos, but that's his fault ... But I'm happy to cover here, on the one hand, With the "last photo" the same exposure from the R5 rocket burner back (almost identical to the famous Krivo's photo, just standing format), FINISHING THAT this famous image could have some kind of exposure error (eg rescue teams accidentally clicked on in the tent of Krivo's camera when packed there), or the film coil could be damaged. Well not! R5 missile from behind, my soul and puncture. (Eichar, and you can go surfing with Florida with a sailboat, who once said to everyone in his blog that these pictures could not have a deal with them, as 300 kilometers [!] Could be the bright object from them ... Because experts have already calculated it Well, then three magnitudes were wrong ... if there were any tests I think. Dear Svetlana Oss: go to a parliamentarian, okay ?!)

On the other hand, I was very happy to find some new images (what are you happy about human being, right ?!) as the 4th (most recently identified) part of the scattered wreckage that I have previously identified, and later will be a drawing, 5-6 players.

So you can greet many of your dear old acquaintances here in this beautiful "panorama":

http://kepkezelo.com/images/5i17dum1uxzbxjy0dwx3.jpg

December 11, 2017, 10:17:11 PM
Reply #17
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xian06


Yes and Yes and Yes, That was BIGGEST mistake dont destroy photos.
Hungarian guy Mr Sztalker sad soon Artifactal Intelligent start analize picture with deep learning, calculate trajectory, and find atom bomp impact point.

December 16, 2017, 07:52:14 AM
Reply #18
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McMeen


Sir : Would agree with your post. Suspect their were some " other people " around the tent".
The students missed identifying
those tracks.
The prosecutor relies upon the "absence of tracks " around tent to create this incredible mystery...

December 28, 2017, 12:06:59 AM
Reply #19
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xian06


Mr Sztalker again:

This scorch (the 7th) is just interesting because this object has at least 5x (!) Been able to imagine it, and now it looks like it's the 6th picture about it. I have collected the recordings so far in a diagram, all from WOMEN the wreck, with small intervals:

http://kepkezelo.com/images/unz5eif5e9i9mb6ytjjz.jpg

The structure is well visible even at the actual rocket launcher, the lines of the grid extend even over the outer cover, as shown in this figure (the photo was slightly contrasted to make the joints more visible):

http://kepkezelo.com/images/42yqnkc85o1w8db9ksuz.jpg

Thus, the wiring grille in question is a real wreck (a single object, but taken from several sides at different times), which may be a telling trait of the near-missile explosion. That's what they left, heading toward Lozva, about two. 300 meters and maybe 20 to 30 meters high and at least so high (about 50 to 60 meters in length, so that the wreck could have exploded with detonation), most of them began to fall off well and the pieces of the tail back to high speed - towards them - fly. It is no coincidence, however, that while the approaching rockets were almost impossible to capture with their cameras, they might have been able to make a large picture of the bubbling and burning wrecks, as they could watch the events from a real "box", which could not be missed. (According to some studies, at least 9 recordings of Zolo's photo collection, 12 of Tibo's pictures, 24 of Slobogin [!!!] were never made public - which could have been unrecognizable broken images or even well-recognized rocket elements. they did well, and that was the rather morbid evidence that the rescue teams looking for them had made the on-the-spot recordings of the first bodies found in the Gyatlovek tents with their photographed camera - better since they did not have any other means for accurate documenting at their end for these cameras.)

The downhill light wrecks, as they cooled down, became faded, for example. the ribs and rings of the grid can still be glowing for a long time, but the thin stiffening wires are becoming less and less visible in the later shots, since they were almost invisible in the dark night. In the drawings I marked the rings with black color, the ribbing red, and the thinner wires with blue.

The photos from the grid show that there is no accidental film-coating damage on the emulsion, as some assume, i.e. the chemical processes occurring on the film may be deposited on the film, possibly on the negative film, or on the film coils on the film coil that is exposed to water in the ravine for a long time.

It is not possible to randomly show 6x (!) The same object on a film, pointing to a solid (fused) shape that can be simulated in space and can be rotated. (For example, with the screech 2 - the tail of the stabilizers - there is at least 5 points of match with a real rocket piece and I did not include any perceived similarity because we would already have 8 suspicious matches. 3x, Scraper 1 - Clamping Strap - At least 5x, Part 3 - Burner Chamber) has also been photographed at least 3x by Gyatlovek.)

Műkontúrok. Thus, the slightly obscure contrasting shadows appearing in very contrasting shots are called in photography and scanning, and they would not appear even if it was just an ordinary dirt on the emulsion, because then all "dirt" patches would have to be in place with another dirt patch of the same opposite tone is also nonsense. On the film or possibly on the scanner's glass v. the contours of the dumplings appearing on the skirt will not be obscured (defocused), these scars and injuries are always well separated from the image. The objects you see in the photo are real objects, taken from a distance.

Finally, some werk photos of the reconstructed grid that I tried to construct based on the original pictures, cut out partly with a piece of paper and part of an ordinary plastic construction criminals to simulate the flight, the special shape and the typical details of the object, which are reflected in every original image.

http://kepkezelo.com/images/wi1h4rnxvyyc45rbw3lm.jpg

December 28, 2017, 12:09:14 AM
Reply #20
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xian06


This grid wreck (a wrapping grid, the rocket worn out of the rocket 7) somehow does not want to throw me away, I just wanted to make other drawings, but I can not move on because I found something again on one of the photos.

I wanted to take a picture of the wreckage position of a rogue, so I took the photos of the "wreck movies" again and my eyes were blocked in the shape of the picture in the corner of one of the pictures (the screech of a clutter, a clamping lashing piece)

http://kepkezelo.com/images/oyn81ptgo44u7z1fstga.jpg

I think this will be the wrap-around grid as it lies in the snow, meaning it has land (soil) after the fall. Before it, I find it quite likely, is a smaller part of the grid, which is connected to the main wreckage all along, and like a "barge" (at least so I called it better), flew with it all the time (a thin but very coupled with a strong wire) until they have just fallen on the snow, or 20 meters from the photographer.

I've processed the original photo with multiple digital effects: contrast, gradation, emboss, color range, trace contour, find edge filters, and unsharp masks on it - these are grouped together in the right hand side of the chart. In view of the result, I think it is quite likely that the pieces of the previously identified wiring grid can be seen on this photo, that is, at least one wreck could certainly have landed near Gyatls and it was also confirmed that these photographed objects were solid surface shapes, v. gas clouds, suspended contours, or fireballs, etc. They could have been affected by these, they could have gossiped, their fingerprints could be ...
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January 02, 2018, 08:26:26 PM
Reply #21
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
I like the enthusiasm and initiative based reconstruction etc, but I have many issues with the idea a speeding rocket exploded near them and they were able to catch mil-seconds shutter photos of it breaking apart with an old wind up 35mm camera.   shock1

The problem I have with the 'glowing wreckage on the ground when photos were taken' idea is, why would that drive them away from the tent without preparations such as..... Clothing.  Also, how would that cause them to not return and..... Die because of it.  Where is all the wreckage in the investigation? 

Just my opinion, but applying this type of filter or computer enhancement to a microscopical blurry section of 1950 film that was submerged in a creek for months is kinda like picking out animals out of clouds in the sky.  I don't see a grid.... You applied the grid my adding human induced digital changes to to image.  Im afraid anyone can do similar and the results based on how they manipulate ot will vary drastically depending on what their imagination wants to develop. 

Don't get me wrong.....  I just dont see any of it myself.